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	<title>Comments on: Are Pro Web Developers somewhat under-informed?</title>
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		<title>By: BarryD</title>
		<link>http://kushalm.com/are-pro-web-developers-somewhat-um-under-informed/comment-page-1#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>BarryD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kushalm.com/?p=3#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Hmm DDOS is probably infrastructure more than development. PIN numbers? Didn&#039;t you attend the CardSpace presentation? :p

I shall have a think though, maybe an hour on &quot;The internet is evil; some tips to keep your website alive?&quot;

I regret now not covering event validation; where you can send fake postbacks to a page and trigger events on hidden controls. Much amusement for that one :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm DDOS is probably infrastructure more than development. PIN numbers? Didn&#8217;t you attend the CardSpace presentation? :p</p>
<p>I shall have a think though, maybe an hour on &#8220;The internet is evil; some tips to keep your website alive?&#8221;</p>
<p>I regret now not covering event validation; where you can send fake postbacks to a page and trigger events on hidden controls. Much amusement for that one <img src='http://kushalm.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: kushal</title>
		<link>http://kushalm.com/are-pro-web-developers-somewhat-um-under-informed/comment-page-1#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>kushal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kushalm.com/?p=3#comment-5</guid>
		<description>You know, I actually didn’t fill out a feedback form :) (I intended to, but they&#039;d run out and said they’d have more later but I had to leave by then)
Anyway, even if I did, mine probably wouldn’t be anonymous and would certainly have had a higher rating than 1. (seriously)

As for what I would like to have seen .. 
Well first, the XSS/SQL injection attack details and the other stuff you mentioned &lt;I&gt;are&lt;/I&gt; important and are certainly worth more than just a fleeting mention.
I guess in addition, I would expect something like - How do you prepare your website to prevent D/DOS attacks. Or How to accept PIN numbers (for logging in, if you&#039;re a bank for instance) but minimising the risk of exposing your PIN to a keylogger. (Maybe by displaying an online numeric keypad for example - with randomly positioned keys you click with your mouse)
Stuff like that I suppose.  

Oh and the Javascript thing - I&#039;m not sure if this is what you meant, but you actually can &quot;do&quot; inheritance, hide data etc. (although, admittedly, they don’t make it easy for you) 
But yeah dealing with a prototype based language can be bit odd &amp; you often you have to jump through hoops to get something you would take for granted in normal languages. 
But its still a pretty interesting how Javascript is perceived now as opposed to a couple of years ago … subject for a my next blog post maybe :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I actually didn’t fill out a feedback form <img src='http://kushalm.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  (I intended to, but they&#8217;d run out and said they’d have more later but I had to leave by then)<br />
Anyway, even if I did, mine probably wouldn’t be anonymous and would certainly have had a higher rating than 1. (seriously)</p>
<p>As for what I would like to have seen ..<br />
Well first, the XSS/SQL injection attack details and the other stuff you mentioned <i>are</i> important and are certainly worth more than just a fleeting mention.<br />
I guess in addition, I would expect something like &#8211; How do you prepare your website to prevent D/DOS attacks. Or How to accept PIN numbers (for logging in, if you&#8217;re a bank for instance) but minimising the risk of exposing your PIN to a keylogger. (Maybe by displaying an online numeric keypad for example &#8211; with randomly positioned keys you click with your mouse)<br />
Stuff like that I suppose.  </p>
<p>Oh and the Javascript thing &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure if this is what you meant, but you actually can &#8220;do&#8221; inheritance, hide data etc. (although, admittedly, they don’t make it easy for you)<br />
But yeah dealing with a prototype based language can be bit odd &amp; you often you have to jump through hoops to get something you would take for granted in normal languages.<br />
But its still a pretty interesting how Javascript is perceived now as opposed to a couple of years ago … subject for a my next blog post maybe <img src='http://kushalm.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: BarryD</title>
		<link>http://kushalm.com/are-pro-web-developers-somewhat-um-under-informed/comment-page-1#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>BarryD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kushalm.com/?p=3#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Oh I don&#039;t mind being slagged off; it&#039;s more useful than praise. Normally we (as presenters) just get scores back, nothing about what would be more useful to you, just anonymous 1 ratings *grin(+*; hence my honest question. What would you like to have seen? What would have been useful to you? (If only because I&#039;d enjoy doing a more indepth presentation on some things if it helps)

Your point is well taken about javascript, JSON scares me ;) (if only because aggregation object creation is just not how I normally do things)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I don&#8217;t mind being slagged off; it&#8217;s more useful than praise. Normally we (as presenters) just get scores back, nothing about what would be more useful to you, just anonymous 1 ratings *grin(+*; hence my honest question. What would you like to have seen? What would have been useful to you? (If only because I&#8217;d enjoy doing a more indepth presentation on some things if it helps)</p>
<p>Your point is well taken about javascript, JSON scares me <img src='http://kushalm.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  (if only because aggregation object creation is just not how I normally do things)</p>
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		<title>By: kushal</title>
		<link>http://kushalm.com/are-pro-web-developers-somewhat-um-under-informed/comment-page-1#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>kushal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kushalm.com/?p=3#comment-3</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;(Wow, my first blog post &amp; I already seemed to have irked someone. I do find Internet based bravado amusing and entertaining sometimes, but only when I am not the one engaging in it. Time to mend some bridges.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hi Barry, and thanks for your comment. And sorry if I sounded like I was neck deep in misguided geek pride of some sort. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for your presentation, I guess if it was meant to be basic it could be called something like &quot;Top 5 things every web developer should know&quot; (That would probably be a big hit too considering what flies on sites like delicious or digg nowadays). That would also have been a measured, constructive comment on my part - something that I obviously have to take classes in. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Point taken also about professionals in one area as opposed to others etc. I guess I often get the feeling that folks who dont know about web sites and developing for the internet somehow think of web development as some sort of a spare-time/passtime kind of thing. Simlilar to how &#039;experienced&#039; developers felt about Javascript before people like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.crockford.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Douglas Crockford&lt;/a&gt; came along. This was really a rant directed at this &quot;its easy&quot; kind of attitude.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for the sense of humour comment - that was a personal jab &amp; I take it back. Different people find different things funny and even that varies depending on one&#039;s mood or the presence/lack of nicotine in one&#039;s bloodstream. Even within the conference hall there were many people who were constantly giggling (and yes, it was more a &quot;with&quot; sort of giggle as opposed to the &quot;at&quot; kind ) - so I am obviously not with the others here.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Wow, my first blog post &#038; I already seemed to have irked someone. I do find Internet based bravado amusing and entertaining sometimes, but only when I am not the one engaging in it. Time to mend some bridges.)</p>
<p>Hi Barry, and thanks for your comment. And sorry if I sounded like I was neck deep in misguided geek pride of some sort. </p>
<p>As for your presentation, I guess if it was meant to be basic it could be called something like &#8220;Top 5 things every web developer should know&#8221; (That would probably be a big hit too considering what flies on sites like delicious or digg nowadays). That would also have been a measured, constructive comment on my part &#8211; something that I obviously have to take classes in. </p>
<p>Point taken also about professionals in one area as opposed to others etc. I guess I often get the feeling that folks who dont know about web sites and developing for the internet somehow think of web development as some sort of a spare-time/passtime kind of thing. Simlilar to how &#8216;experienced&#8217; developers felt about Javascript before people like <a href="http://www.crockford.com/" rel="nofollow">Douglas Crockford</a> came along. This was really a rant directed at this &#8220;its easy&#8221; kind of attitude.</p>
<p>As for the sense of humour comment &#8211; that was a personal jab &#038; I take it back. Different people find different things funny and even that varies depending on one&#8217;s mood or the presence/lack of nicotine in one&#8217;s bloodstream. Even within the conference hall there were many people who were constantly giggling (and yes, it was more a &#8220;with&#8221; sort of giggle as opposed to the &#8220;at&#8221; kind ) &#8211; so I am obviously not with the others here.</p>
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		<title>By: BarryD</title>
		<link>http://kushalm.com/are-pro-web-developers-somewhat-um-under-informed/comment-page-1#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>BarryD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kushalm.com/?p=3#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Sorry you didn&#039;t get anything out of it. 

The problem with going into more detail is it&#039;s hard to give general advice that applies to everything, the more specific you get the less it applies to the majority of the audience. I could cover using &quot;hacking&quot; tools, but I honestly don&#039;t feel that would be useful, without understanding why the problems occur. 

Yes it was basic, but the mistakes are still made on a regular basis. Sure most people know about SQL Injection these days, but most people also believe that stored procedures solve that problem, which in some cases isn&#039;t true.

Just because you&#039;re a professional in one area, say database work, or middle tier doesn&#039;t mean you know the problems of developing for the front end, or the web, hence the presentation, and the examples I gave (the MS store being a good one; you&#039;d think MS would get their internal systems right, being professional et al.)

What would you rather have seen? What would have made it a useful presentation for you? Was the humour that bad? (It&#039;s an interesting talk to give because people don&#039;t ask questions that often until after when they can have a private word; hence the attempts at humour in order to get some sort of reaction; but yes, my humour is err, rather strange at times)

Feel free to drop me a mail, obviously I&#039;m disappointed you felt the talk had no worth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry you didn&#8217;t get anything out of it. </p>
<p>The problem with going into more detail is it&#8217;s hard to give general advice that applies to everything, the more specific you get the less it applies to the majority of the audience. I could cover using &#8220;hacking&#8221; tools, but I honestly don&#8217;t feel that would be useful, without understanding why the problems occur. </p>
<p>Yes it was basic, but the mistakes are still made on a regular basis. Sure most people know about SQL Injection these days, but most people also believe that stored procedures solve that problem, which in some cases isn&#8217;t true.</p>
<p>Just because you&#8217;re a professional in one area, say database work, or middle tier doesn&#8217;t mean you know the problems of developing for the front end, or the web, hence the presentation, and the examples I gave (the MS store being a good one; you&#8217;d think MS would get their internal systems right, being professional et al.)</p>
<p>What would you rather have seen? What would have made it a useful presentation for you? Was the humour that bad? (It&#8217;s an interesting talk to give because people don&#8217;t ask questions that often until after when they can have a private word; hence the attempts at humour in order to get some sort of reaction; but yes, my humour is err, rather strange at times)</p>
<p>Feel free to drop me a mail, obviously I&#8217;m disappointed you felt the talk had no worth.</p>
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